CNN host Abby Phillip on Wednesday took on a Catholic panelist who tried to go to bat for Vice President JD Vance after he warned that Pope Leo XIV should “be careful” and not get political when discussing “matters of theology.”

“Do you think that JD Vance knows more about Catholic theology than the pope?” asked Phillip of Caroline Downey, a columnist for the conservative National Review who described herself as a practicing Catholic.

Downey attempted to defend Vance, who is Catholic, over his warning as those in Donald Trump’s camp, including Rep. Troy Nehls (R-Texas) and House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.), made finger wags toward the U.S.-born pontiff, who has dialed up his criticism of war and angered the president in the process.

She referred to the pope’s Palm Sunday homily, where, per a translation from the Vatican, he emphasized that God “does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war, but rejects them.”

Downey argued that it’s “totally normal” for the pope to make United Nations spokesperson-like statements against war before claiming that Leo was being “a bit precarious” and could have confused Catholics about war.

“Because does that mean the war to fight [Adolf] Hitler and World War II, was that unjustified?” asked Downey, who cautioned that popes should use “precision and exactitude” with their language.

“The war against the Soviet Union ― was that unjustified?” Downey continued. “I’m just saying that to say that he should be a little bit more precise...”

Phillip proceeded to jump in and turned to words “straight from the Catholic Church.”

Bishop James Massa used a statement this week to clarify that the church has addressed the “Just War Theory” for a thousand years and taught that nations “can only legitimately take up the sword ‘in self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.’”

After Phillip read the statement on air and hit Downey with her question on Vance, the columnist argued that it’s “up to lay Catholics,” per the Second Vatican Council, “to decide what that means for temporal matters.”

Downey added, “Just because the pope makes some sort of dictate on political issues, that’s not a religious proclamation.”

H/T: Mediaite

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